INTERVIEWS

03/11/98 Design Dialogs by Steven Heller
04/27/98 FEED Magazine by Austin Bunn
07/07/98 Vacume Records Free Paper
07/08/98 Relax magazine - Keith Haring issue

03/11/98 Design Dialogs by Steven Heller

You are known as a painter and sculptor, but your repetoire also includes children's books, computer games, CD ROMs, and most recently video games. Before examining each individually, please tell me how all this diverse media fits together.
I have to create a cozy candy colored cartooniverse that spreads joy like peanut butter over the burnt toast of so-called reality. I don't know why I must do this, but I use whatever means seems fit. To me all media are art supplies: Computers, paintbrushes, lumps of clay, television production teams, musical instruments, they are all the same. Children's books, video games, TV commercials, Soho gallery shows, comic books, illustrations, I really don't care what the medium is, as long as it's something I am interested in exploring - and of course it must extend the cozy candy colored cartooniverse as far as it can possibly go.

So can you describe what is important about your various media? Let's start with children's books.
Children' picture books seemed like a completely natural way to augment the cozy candy colored cartooniverse. Unfortunately it was a lot more difficult than I thought (as many things are). It takes a lot of love and sensitivity and marketing to have a success with this medium, and it takes a long time. I have 4 books out now, and am planning to continue.

And CD ROMS?
CD-Roms seemed perfect for the cozy candy colored cartooniverse quest, and If you look at Wonder Window or Dazzeloids you see I was right! I love those two projects, but I had no idea the computer entertainment audience would be such a limited and closed minded bunch. As Microsoft's Windows proliferates I have less and less interest in creating fun products for this medium.

And video games?
Video games are a different story. Unlike PCs, game machines like Nintendo and Playstation work perfectly. The problem with this medium is it is extremely expensive to develop the software on your own. In this case I took the collaboration-corporate-studio-contract approach. Working with a big company is like another very difficult box of art materials, that you can't work with it alone. In the case of Parappa the Rapper I was actually hired by Sony to extend my cozy candy colored cartooniverse in their direction. It was a brilliant idea for everyone involved.

Has your standing in the "art world" be compromised in any way owing to your immersion in these various popular arts?
I don't think I have much of a "standing" in the art world at this time, but I really don't care at all. The structure of the art world never really changes, so someday when I start making big heroic paintings (I'm planning on it) I'll attempt the gallery world again. It will be another challenge.

You are truly a pioneer of digital/computer art as entertainment. Rodney's Fun Screen and Wonder Window took the then nascent medium to a new plateau of wit, humor and artistry. How did you get involved in this area? Indeed what did you learn as a pioneer that is second nature today?
When I first saw the Macintosh in 1986 I believed that it was, and still is, a magic art supply kit, designed with creative people in mind. This is the only reason I became interested in digital art. It was the possibility of creating the cozy candy colored cartooniverse on a musical light up screen without cumbersome video equipment, and without teams of specialists. I could handle it. It was made for me. When I started working on Wonder Window I didn't know I was a pioneer. I just wanted to make some funny art on the computer. CD-Roms were exotic at the time, so I was surprised when I met people from Voyager who actually wanted to publish my stuff on that medium. This experience made me think of CD-ROM as a viable fine art medium. It was exciting then, but now I think of the computer as my most important production tool, but not the delivery platform.

Obviously, your work, your imagery is rooted in the vocabulary of children -- even your loft is designed kind of like a playland. But why the realm of children?
I never think about working "in the realm of children". I only think about the cozy candy colored cartooniverse. For some reason people assume I do this for kids. Kids are naturally creative and open minded. They don't even need a cozy candy colored cartooniverse. I divide the world into three kinds of people. Children, adults, and parents. Anyone can behave like child, adult or parent at any time in their life. Young people are usually called "children" but sometimes this is not true. Many young people are more mature and honest in their thinking than so-called adults. They just lack experience. Adults act childish quite often, but they are the ones who create things like governments, religions and fashion. Parents are the most difficult - always judging things. I make my art for adults of all ages.

Your drawing and painting style is virtually primitive, and your children's books are prime examples of that. Tell me why you work in this manner, rather than a more finished form?
I love the directness and spontaneity of cartoons. My work seems primitive in that way. It is actually the most natural way for me to draw.

Do the fantasy worlds you've created in sculpture, and presumably intended for adult audiences, influence your children's work? Or are they two separate worlds?
I think the only time I separate my work into age categories is when working on children's picture books. Picture book publishers and buyers are very conscious of these age restrictions. If the work doesn't fit into their age categories correctly it can be a disaster.

Parappa the Rapper is truly weird, from a graphic and conceptual point of view. I've never seen a video game like it, which just goes to show that most video games fall into a few cliched categories. How did you conceive of this?
Parappa was conceived of by Masaya Matsuura, a Japanese musician and digital artist. He had been working on a PC and Mac based music sequencing toy that became the basis for the game. His original concept also included using me as the graphic designer. He and wife were big fans of my illustration work. The great part of this deal was the fact the I was already working for a division of Sony called Sony Creative Products in Tokyo. We have designed a line of licensed character for sale as products like stationary, toys and tee shirts. These characters became the supporting cast for the game. The name "Parappa" came from Matsuura, but it was my job to design the character and fill out his personality.

Can you explain the point of the game?
Parappa is a young and hopeful boy dog, who wants to impress his cute daisy like girl friend Sunny Funny. He thinks learning to Rap from various masters will help him do this. These masters include Chop Chop Master Onion - a martial arts teacher, Prince Master Fleaswallow - a salesman at a flea market, Cheap Cheap the Cooking Chicken - a cooking show host, and a few others. The game works like an extended version of the game Simon Says. The "call and response" song lyrics get the player into the game, but the trick is to improvise along with the beat. That is the only way to "Rap cool." Executives at Sony Computer entertainment knew that this was a totally unique game idea. At the same time they weren't sure if it would work - but they had a lot of confidence in me and Matsuura and his team. They left us alone to create the game we wanted, and they are very happy about it now.

I understand that you did all the artwork for Parapa via fax. Describe the process of making this come alive.
Because of the short time allowed for my work, and the limitations of working in New York on a Tokyo based production, The fax machine turned out to be the fastest and most reliable way to get my designs to the animators. All the character and set designs were hand draw by me on paper and sent by fax with Pantone color specifications.

Your books are linear, even your computer based toys are more or less linear. What about working in such a multi-leveled, non-linear environment as this is the most difficult?
I don't like "non-linear" story telling except in some very special cases. I think James Joyce's Ulysses works well, but computer based point-of-view games like Myst or Final Fantasy seem overly complicated to me. I think paintings or novels are a great place to create these non-linear narratives, but on the computer I find it boring. I'm not sure why anyone would create a story where parts of it might never be seen by the viewer. I love a well crafted story with a beginning, middle and end. I would much prefer to get one of these right before attempting anything more complicated.

Do you think that art and design are moving more towards interactive realms, or are you an anomoly?
I would love to be an anomaly, but I think there are a growing number of artists like me. The technology of entertainment is trickling down to the level where almost anyone who really wants to can afford the tools. Digital video is the best example. Fifteen years ago it took two or three technicians and hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment to do what can be easily done on any appropriately equipped computer for under ten thousand. There is an emerging group of artists who can work with video and audio in their own studios the way more traditional artist use paint. Even so, I don't think art and design are moving towards "interactivity" any more than they were before the personal computer fad. Games, by their nature are interactive, and some sculpture, installation art, and conceptual art all demand interactivity from the viewer. These forms have existed, and continue to flourish. The computer is only another tool in creating these forms. I am actually anticipating an anti-technology backlash by artists and designers. Oil paintings and hand set type may be again the ultimate form of expression. I also hope the artists that cling to the digital mediums will find ways to destroy the current entertainment distribution system. If full screen video can be successfully broadcast on an internet like system, there could be a fantastic new opportunity for freeform television, that is practically impossible now.
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04/27/98 FEED Magazine by Austin Bunn

1. Where did the original concept for Parappa The Rapper come from?
The game concept came from Masaya Matsuura. He is a musician and pop star in Japan, and a long time experimenter with computers and music. He had been creating a Macintosh based music sequencer. It was fun to use and toy-like in many ways. This gave him the idea to create a rap music sequencing game for the Playstation, which was just being introduced in Japan at the time.

Where did the name "Parappa" come from?
This name was also created by Matsuura. I am not sure how he thought of it. It is kind of a play on words in Japanese. I've come to understand it means "paper thin" and also "a little crazy", which is a good description of the game.

How did you get involved?
Matsuura and his wife Kiri were both big fans of my work. I have been doing a lot of work in Japan, and am represented by Interlink Planning, one of the most prestigious visual artist agencies in Japan. My biggest project there is a line of merchandise licenses distributed by Sony Creative Products. I have my own line of character based goods, which were separate from Parappa at that time. It was just a coincidence for Matsuura that I was already working for a division of Sony, because he had always imagined me doing the artwork for the game. The deal went together easily, and I became the master of the visual side of Parappa. It was my idea that he became a dog.

Videogames, art and rap? How did those three come together?
Once again this was Matsuura's territory. He loves rap for its patterns and rhythm, and believes it to be a very interactive style of music. I also think he did not want to emphasize the urban or especially the "gangsta" side of rap. He is more interested in a fun musical experience. I think this is one of the reasons he picked me to do the artwork.

How did you and Matsuura collaborate? Through email?
Basically Matsurra and Sony Computer would come up with a list of things they needed for the game. In Tokyo, at a big conference table, we would sit around and brainstorm for a week, and then I would return to New York and draw.

How was the game made from your end? Did you sketch then digitally compose the characters?
Physically my work involved piles of sketches and storyboards on paper, which at that time were sent by fax with Pantone color specifications. They would FedEx video tapes of animation tests and email stills of the finished characters, which I would comment on or approve.

Why are the characters just 2-D?
I think we all agreed from the beginning that the original hand drawn quality of my artwork should be preserved. It is difficult to do that with limited 3D modeling. They created an experiment with my 2D characters dancing around in a 3D space. It looked great, using motion capture technology for the dancing. We all smiled and laughed.

What was the objective of the game?
Parappa is a young and hopeful boy dog, who wants to impress his cute daisy like girl friend Sunny Funny. He thinks learning to rap from various masters will help him do this. These masters include Chop Chop Master Onion - a martial arts teacher, Instructor Mooselini - a driving teacher, Prince Master Fleaswallow - a salesman at a flea market, and a few others.

What was the biggest limitation you faced while designing it?
Time. These video games are big productions, and they have to be done fast. My problems included the fact that they are in Tokyo and Osaka, and I am in New York. There was often a time lag while they absorbed my ideas into the existing production.

Were you afraid that the game might seem too cute or bizarre?
No.

Looking back, is there anything you would have done differently in the design process?
All the things that we learned, and all the things that we want to improve are being worked out in the sequel. For that reason, the sequel is a bigger challenge than creating the original.

What is your favorite game out there?
I really like The Neverhood by Doug TenNapel, Edward Schofield and Mark and Tim Lorenzen, published by Dreamworks.
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07/07/98 Vacume Records Free Paper

1. Last time you were in Japan, you visited Yoro Park (Yoro Tenmei Hanten chi) in Gifu Pref. We heard that you found the place very interesting. Can you explain what the place was like? What did you find to be so interesting? Any funny episodes?
In Gifu there is Yoro park, and in Yoro Park is The Site of Reversible Destiny, a sculpture park by Japanese/American artist Arakawa and his wife. I have been an admirer of Arakawa's work since I was in art school, and was surprised to find out he had built such a huge sculpture. I read about it in a tourist guide that was in my hotel room, and when I told my agent about it he said we should go. I think it took six hours to drive there from Tokyo. The Site of Reversible Destiny is a place that seems to have no purpose or meaning, but at the same time makes you aware of your existence, and challenges you to think in totally different ways. These are exciting goals for an artist, and Arakawa has done a brilliant job. It was fun to watch people playing in the park. It is quite dangerous, with steep slopes and narrow areas, and seems not to be designed for people. It is the opposite of Disneyland.

2. Did you visit any places other than Yoro Park during your stay? Where did you like most, and what did you like about the place? Any funny episodes?
The onsen (spa) at Geru was very fun and relaxing. I felt comfortable in the ukata (robe), but the geta (wooden sandles) were really hard for me to walk in. The hotel staff felt sorry for me so the next day they gave me a pair of geta to take home. I have not had a chance to practice them yet.

3. We heard that you listen to Japanese music. How did you first come in touch with Japanese music? What motivated your interest? Who is your favorite Japanese Artist, and what do you like about the Artist?
Since the eighties I have had tapes and records by The Plastics and Yellow Magic Orchestra. I also had a tape by Akiko Yano that I loved listening to. I also somehow got a tape of early Shonen Knife which I really loved. A friend of mine is a collector of Japanese pop music, and when we met a few years ago and he was surprised at my interest in Japanese music and started to trade CDs and tapes with me. On my many trips to Japan he gives me lists of record to buy. Now I listen to a lot of Japanese music, and it is impossible to name my favorite. I usually have a "featured" CD about every two weeks that I play more than the rest. This week it is Shonen Knife "Happy Hour". They are a great band that is growing and changing. I loved "Brand New Knife" last year, but I think there new album is even better. They are funny and charming, and energetic and smart. I was really inspired by The Boredoms when I first heard them. I had heard "noise" bands before, but Bordoms is the extreme. I love things that are extreme. It made me think totally differently about what rock could be, and what the end of rock might sound like. I have a collection Pizzicato Five CDs and also a huge collection of Denki Groove CDs, part of which was given to me by a friend at Sony. I also got Mayiwa Denki from friends at Sony,I really like all of those bands. Tomeo Shinohara is my fashion idol, and I don't want to forget Nelories who I don't know much about but I like their records a lot. Lately I have been interested in a kind of experimental rock by Buffalo Daughter and Takako Minikawa and solo records by Cornelius. Minikawa-san is my favorite of these, and whenever I get one of her records I play it over and over. I am also a fan of Yann Tomita and the Doopies. This music is like the future of electronic sound, and is fun and smart at the same time. I like Puffy also! Most main-stream Japanese pop is not that interesting to me, butI feel Puffy is different. They are a lot more casusal and natural than most of the top 40 J-pop. I think my art work goes well with their music. Now that they are super stars I hope they can maintain their friendly attitude. I almost forgot Petty and Booka. I don't listen to Country and Western very much, but I do have a small collection. Petty and Booka do covers of American Country music, and it is really funny and sweet. They are great.

4. How is Japanese Music doing in NY?
Cornelius and Buffalo Daughter are quite popular in the underground scene. Shonen Knife well established, and Pizzicato Five had a hit video on MTV a few years ago. Ryichi Sakamoto is also well known and respected in the contemporary classical area. More US labels like Grand Royal are picking up interesting Japanese bands. This may cause a trend.

5. Have you come across anyone interesting recently? (An artist, musician, a friend, your children's friend, a neighbor etc., anyone is OK) Why were you attracted to the person? What did you find so interesting about the person?
It was fun to meet Yuichi Ito of Avant production company in Tokyo. He is doing the animation for my Family Mart TV commercials. He gave me a copy of his demo reel, and I was impressed with his humor and ability. I have been very reluctant to let my characters become typical 3d animation. I liked the Parappa production because it was not typical 3d. I think Ito-san and Avant have the capability to bring my characters to life in a fresh way. He seemed to be a good artist.

6. Tell us your impression of Mr. Fukushima, President of Vacuum Records.
He is a very exciting man who likes to fish from a small boat and then kill the fish and eat them raw right away. I think this is great, and although I don't like to go on boats or kill fish, I respect his energy and power.
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1. What was your first impression of Keith?
I thought "what a weird looking guy! He's cool!"

2. What kind of friendship did you have with Keith? Did you go out together or do activities together?
Keith and I only knew each other from being in some classes together at SVA. I did not know any of his friends (except Deena). We appreciated each others work, and Keith invited me to be in a couple of his crazy art shows at a church on St.Marks place.

3. Was Keith popular among the girls?
Keith had good friends who were girls, but Keith was the most openly gay person I knew at the time. He was proud to be homosexual, and I really respected him for that.

4. What kind of clothes did you wear and what kind of music did you listen to at the time?
Devo, Ramones, Talking Heads, B52s. Jeans, t-shirts, paint covered running shoes, and an old army jacket that smelled like beer and cigarettes even though I didn't drink much or smoke.

5. Did you have any image of what you would be doing in the future? Do you know if Keith had?
No. I don't know.

6. What do you like and dislike about Keith?
Keith was one of the great artist of our time. His genius was just starting to blossom. The thing I dislike is that he is dead.

7. What kind of similarities do you have with Keith? How are you different from him?
Keith was a very social person. He love meeting celebrities, and they were attracted to him. He loved clubs and crazy sex. I am not like that at all. I like to stay home and work alone. I love being with my wife and kids. Even at the time I was interessted in settling down.

8. What did you think when he started drawing pictures in the subway?
I thought "That is the coolest thing in the world."

9. Have you ever bought any of his products at his Pop shop? Or do you still have any of his products now?
I used to have some stickers and buttons around, but now I can't find them. Since I have my own line of "pop" products I try to wear or use those.

10. How did you feel when you found out that he had AIDS?
I wasn't that surprised, because so many friends and artists at that time got it, but I did not want to believe it would kill them.

11. How did you feel when you heard he died?
I felt like all the fun was over. The loss was so huge, it seemed the art world itself had died. I felt like making painting and sculptures wasn't fun any more.

12. Could you list 5 words to express Keith.
Energy, Genius, Passion, Truth, Party.

13. Please write a message to Keith.
Dear Keith, If you hadn't made the East Village art scene the exciting place it was, my work may not have been noticed. Art collectors came to see what you were doing, and stumbled on to my work too. Thank you for making it possible for me to do all the things I am doing.

14. Please write about an episode about Keith?
At school Keith showed some experimental videos he was making. They were really funny but some had some very explicit homosexual activities. I told him I thought they were great. For some reason he was a little embarrassed. I don't know why, but it was very much his style.
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